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Rediscovering Faith and Legacy: A Conversation with Mark Connor

In this episode of 'The Science of Self,' we welcome Mark Connor from St. Paul, Minnesota, a former competitive boxer turned boxing trainer and writer. Mark introduces his book, 'It's About Time: Millions of Copies Sold for Dad,' an autobiographical saga interwoven with poetry that explores his life, his relationship with his late father, and his spiritual journey. Mark discusses his re-embrace of his Catholic faith, the influence of his Irish heritage, and his deep connection with the Native American community through his work at a youth shelter. He also touches on the discipline and routine required in both writing and boxing, and the importance of taking the first step to achieve one's goals. Join us for a heartfelt conversation on faith, discipline, and the pursuit of personal excellence.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

00:17 Mark Connor's Background and Book Overview

01:43 Faith and Personal Journey

01:58 Involvement with Native American Community

06:47 Cultural and Spiritual Reflections

15:28 Reading from the Book

32:56 Writing and Discipline

37:36 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

It's About Time (Millions of Copies Sold for Dad) is a saga wrapped around a package of poems, guarded by Angels. With a narrative style that reads like a novel, contains a collection of poetry, and shares an autobiography, Mark Connor guides us through a journey of love, family, and life that is ours as much as his own, peaking at the point of merger of difference and unity. Following him from memory to memory, we feel the eyes upon us, defeat the empire of fear, embrace the kingdom of love, and find ten minutes a day to be grateful. All the while, we celebrate the city of Saint Paul (with a friendly nod to Minneapolis), experience Irish influence in neighborhood life, rooted in Catholic cohesion, embraced by indigenous America in the medicine wheel. We box the perfect metaphor with future world champions, love beauty in a moment of ambivalence, work on a fishing boat in Southeast Alaska, comfort a child in an American Indian shelter for kids, and guard American Indian buildings, with guns, in riots. Through it all, we honor Dad, mourning his death and remembering his love, sharing a story written for America, valuing fatherhood, defending family, encouraging marriage, and providing hope.

Mark Connor is a Literary Pugilist from Saint Paul, Minnesota. A lifelong boxer and Boxing Trainer, he runs a service called, Fighting Chance/Boxing For Life. His writing about Boxing, as well as his training services, can be found at https: //BoxersAndWritersMagazine.com. He writes fiction, poetry, and journalism. He is the 2022 Boxing inductee to the Mancini's St. Paul Sports Hall of Fame. He attended the University of St. Thomas in Saint Paul, Regis University in Denver, Colorado, and graduated with a BA in English from the University of Minnesota. He has written and published many articles about Boxing, Irish culture, and people and events related to Irish freedom. He has also published local news and features on business, politics, and current affairs in Minnesota and the U.S. His Substack newsletter, Irish, Catholic, Punchdrunk in Saint Paul, can be found at: https: //markconnoricpunchdrunk.substack.com.

Transcript
Russell Newton:

Hello, listeners and welcome back to The Science of Self.

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Today we have a guest with

us, mark Connor from St.

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Paul, Minnesota.

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And Mark, as is usually the case, I'm

gonna ask you to take a first few minutes

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and introduce yourself to our listeners.

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Mark Connor: Well, hi, as you said,

my name is Mark Connor from St.

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Paul, Minnesota.

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Uh, I am a literary pist, and when I

say a literary pist, that means the

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only two things I've been good at

in my life are boxing and writing.

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So I'm, I'm no longer

a, a competitive boxer.

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Um, I'm a boxing trainer and

I'm a writer, and I have a book

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that, uh, we're gonna talk about.

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It's called, um, it's kind of in the

background behind me here and hold it up.

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It's, it's about time.

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Millions of copies sold for dad.

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Um, published, uh, June 16th

for Father's Day last year.

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Uh, it, uh, won the Irish Network,

Minnesota, uh, blooms Day literary

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award, and it's a finalist in

the Midwest, uh, book awards.

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Um, which will be announced on,

uh, June 28th, uh, in the religion

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slash philosophy category.

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And it's, uh, described as a

saga wrapped around a package

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of poems guarded by angels.

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So it's a, it's a short autobiography

that reads like a novel and it has

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20, 20 poems running through it.

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And it deals with, it deals with my life.

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My relationship with my dad, I

wrote it in response, uh, to losing

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him on, uh, September 30th, 2019.

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Um, I didn't actually write it

until, uh, early:

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uh, early February and, uh, 29th

of March is when I finished it.

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And, uh, I, I juxtaposed my experiences

with, uh, my Catholic faith growing up.

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Um, talk a little bit about the, uh, uh,

the Irish, uh, uh, heritage influence,

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uh, on myself and on the city of St.

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Paul, where, where I live, where

I grew up, and, uh, uh, I talk

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about my experience with, uh, the

Native American Indian community.

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I worked, uh, 13 and a half years at a

place called Onai Young, which is, uh,

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means our home in, in, uh, Ojibwe and, uh.

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Really spent a lot of time, um,

in the, uh, kind of spiritual

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tradition of the Lakotas and sort

of kinda lean that way for a while.

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Um, but uh, never abandoned my Catholic

faith and kind of had a re reimbursement

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of my faith back around 2007.

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So I kind of talk about that in the

influence of it and my, and kind of a

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re re embracing of my faith and, uh,

reinforcement of my faith as I deal with,

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uh, losing my dad and letting go of him.

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That's what the book is about.

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Russell Newton: When you say you had

to re-embrace your faith, did you, were

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there some, I don't wanna read into that.

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Can you

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Mark Connor: Right.

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Russell Newton: on that a little bit?

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Mark Connor: Well, you

know, so, uh, I started.

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I, I, you know, I, I, I, when I say

I re-embraced it, um, I, it kinda, I,

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it reinforced within my, in myself.

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I never fully let go of it.

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Um, but, you know, I, I compromised it.

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Um, and, uh, uh, one of the most

convenient ways to compromise, uh, that

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the people compromise, uh, faith in, in.

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United States and Western culture.

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One of the things, it's just, you know,

we cut corners, uh, quite a bit on, uh,

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uh, on, on the, the, uh, uh, rules of, uh.

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Preserving ourselves, um, for, well,

basically on activity outside of marriage.

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Um, and, uh, uh, and also, you know,

it's kind of on, uh, and, and really

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on just, you know, so like, basically

I, I, I make a mention at a certain

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point in the book that I, I started.

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Um, I, I, I, I started to go back

and not to, to follow all the

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rules that I grew up with as a

Catholic of what I'm supposed to do.

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Go and make it to mass every

Sunday, you know, and, uh, uh,

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and, and, um, just keep basically

keeping the commandments, you know?

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And I think that, um, I, I also tried to.

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Kind of blend things with, because

we have, we have this, um, we, we

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have this kind of feeling in, in, in

American culture of, of, uh, you know.

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If, if we live our faith, that

if we live it, you know, fully

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to, uh, how we're supposed to, we

don't wanna offend others by it.

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We don't want to try to be

forcing others to be following

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the same thing that we follow.

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Um, so sometimes we might.

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Not bear witness, uh, publicly to what,

uh, our behaviors are supposed to be.

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Or we may make excuses, uh, for

others to just, and, you know, you

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can accept someone who doesn't believe

the same thing that you believe or,

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or behave the same way you behave,

but not necessarily, uh, endorse the

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behavior or endorse the way of life.

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Right.

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You know, I mean, I mean, like

one thing I never did, I mean, I

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was, I never fully followed Well.

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How do I say this?

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I have, at times in my life deviated

from the, uh, the requirement as a

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Catholic to live a fully chased life.

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Okay.

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But, um, I've never lived with

a woman because I just, I could

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never do that to my parents.

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I could never live, like, live with a

woman that I'm not married to because.

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Uh, it was, uh, it would just be outwardly

showing to the public that I'm doing that

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and that, and I, I just couldn't do that.

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And then some people

think, wow, that's crazy.

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I mean, in American culture it's

considered kind of crazy that you

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wouldn't do that because I mean,

what kind of a prude are you?

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Right?

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But at the same time, um.

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Uh, you know, that didn't mean I

wasn't, uh, uh, that didn't mean that

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I, that I was necessarily waiting f

waiting to marry a woman, you know?

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'cause I'm looking, you could tell right

now I'm not married and I don't have kids.

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And so I kind of made a decision.

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I.

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Um, it was back about around 2007.

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I said, you know, I'm just, I gotta

follow the rules that I have to, that,

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that are, um, important, uh, that

are, that are required by my faith.

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'cause it's where I grew up with.

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This is my, I'm a combination

of my mom and dad.

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This is the way they live

and I have to live that way.

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And, um, I was with, I was deeply

immersed in the Native American

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Indian community at the time.

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And I wasn't announcing to people, I'm

re-embracing my Catholic faith, but

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no one, what I, what I really love and

respect about my friends and native

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community is no one was trying to pull me

out of that or discourage me from that.

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They were, and they, and no one was

trying to push me to, um, to go to

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the sweat lodges or to, you know,

to, to pray the way that traditional

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Native American Indians prayed.

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But, but if I prayed with them in

that tradition, it was accepted.

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You know, the fact that

I was respecting them.

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And that was the cool thing about it.

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I mean, people talk about, I I I've

heard many, you know, people in the,

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I've, I've been, I've been deep in

the progressive kind of community.

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Um, although I never considered

myself a progressive.

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Um, and, and people will say

openly to me, yeah, the Catholic

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church is just a cult, right?

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But, you know, when I didn't go to

mass, there was no one knocking on my

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door saying, trying to pull me to mass.

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You know what I mean?

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And why weren't you there on Sunday?

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There was no one trying to.

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Uh, wrote, wrote me and

said, you can't leave.

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You know what I'm saying?

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It's, it's, it's, and that's really when

you talk about God, I mean, God is love.

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And God loves us, uh,

eternally and to love us.

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He must respect our freedom.

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If you don't respect someone's

freedom, you don't love that person.

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So you can't force

someone to do something.

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You have to make a free will choice

to, to love God, to follow, you

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know, to follow what God's will is.

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And so, um, that's why it's.

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Neither tradition I'm talking about is

a cult tradition at all, you know, is,

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or, or what we would call a cult, right?

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Russell Newton: you talk a lot

about the Native Americans.

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How did you get involved with that?

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Is that part of your family?

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Is it just a societal or a, a social

effort that you were involved in?

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Uh, how did you get into the Native

American Indian culture and society?

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Mark Connor: Okay, so, uh, in, in in

the early:

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This, I met this poet, so

I was my early twenties.

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I met this poet in his early forties,

um, at this, and he was, he was at a

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poetry reading that some friends of

mine who had a, um, a, a liter, a small

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literary magazine were putting on, I.

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And he there featuring him, and I

just thought he was really cool.

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And he was kind of a working class poet.

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He was a, uh, uh, a Mississippi

River barge hand poet.

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He'd, he'd worked, uh, he worked

for 20 years at the, on the

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barges of the Mississippi River

and was doing so at the time.

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At the time, he got to the point

where he was trusted by the owners of

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the company to be the security guy.

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So he'd be in the docks of

the Mississippi River in St.

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Paul, um, from five.

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PM to 5:00 AM every night, and

that's where he wrote his poetry.

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His name is Kevin O'Rourke.

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And he'd gotten, and I talked to

him after, after this, this poetry,

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and he was, um, telling me that

he was sober and got into sobriety

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and the time he got into sobriety.

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He'd, um, um, been brought to, uh, a

Lakota Sundance ceremony down in, uh,

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uh, Rosebud Reservation, and that he was

involved with this Lakota tradition and

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he said, if you ever, uh, want to, uh,

come down there to, to, uh, to see this

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or to be a part of this, come on down.

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And, um, in the summer of 1995, I,

I went down there with him and that

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kind of, uh, and, and at the same time

also I'd gotten involved with, uh, I

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mentioned here that I joined this, uh,

uh, Irish Catholic organization, um,

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Irish Catholic, uh, fraternal organization

called the Ancient of Hibernians.

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I joined that right around the same

time I, I'd gotten involved with.

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Uh, I had met some people that

were involved who were kind of

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grassroots activists involved with,

uh, raising awareness about what

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was happening and advocating for,

uh, uh, the Irish Republican side

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of the conflict that was going on in

Ireland at the time, the troubles.

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And, uh, there was a solidarity

that had been built up for over

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the last couple of centuries.

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There's been a solidarity built up

between Irish Republicans and, and, uh.

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American Indians, and I mean, if

you can go far as far back as the

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Irish famine, when the Choctaw raised

money with, by selling some gold

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to send over to, to Ireland to try

to help feed people and everything.

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And uh, so there's this kind

of solidarity thing there too.

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So that kind of motivated me a little

bit too to kind of explore, uh, the,

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the, you know, the native, native,

uh, tradition, culture and so forth.

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So.

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Then the following year I met, uh,

the guy who actually, um, did the, uh,

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cover cover art for this, uh, book.

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His name's Eric Ke.

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He's a really, really good

artist, uh, Canadian Ojibwe.

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He got me the job at this place

called and Young And And Young.

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It's spelled three words.

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It's spelled A-I-N-D-A-H-Y-U-N-G.

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It's a temporary emergency.

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It, it, it's an American Indian program.

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It's a temporary emergency homeless

shelter for youth aged five to 17.

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And it's for all youth, but pri the

primary, uh, uh, community that serves

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as the Native American Indian community.

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And, um, I.

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So I worked there in one

capacity or another, uh, for

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about 13 and a half years.

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And what really made me comfortable

about going to a Native American

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ceremony or to, uh, and witnessing

it or, um, you know, and, and, and.

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You know, like I never, I wasn't

gonna become a be being a sun dancer.

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That's something I don't go into detail

with it, but that's something that is, uh,

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not something that I would personally do.

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I was just there as a supporter

and as a, as a friend.

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Um, and I was participating in prayer,

I was praying with them, but I'm

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not participating in the ceremony.

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'cause it's a, it's a four day thing

that goes on and it's, it's kind

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of, it's a warrior ceremony too.

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But, um, um.

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I, what was made me comfortable

about it was, one, there's kind of

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a, uh, there's kind of a fatherly

kind of, uh, understanding of God

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that, that, uh, that the Lakota have.

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And there's also, um, uh, the,

the, the recognition of the

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spo, you know, like, like the.

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The word in Lakota for God is aka,

which means, uh, uh, grandfather.

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Great mystery, I believe is, it

was a pretty close interpretation

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in English, but um, also.

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Just the whole idea of Spirit or the

Great Spirit and, and kind of, uh, is

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a parallel to me of, uh, or it's, it

is another understanding of the Holy

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Spirit and also in the sweat lodge.

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Um, one thing that I found

very similar to Catholicism is.

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The belief that the ancestors who, who

would come into the sweat lodge when

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they, when they would, uh, when, when

the prayers are happening, and then,

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and listen to the prayers and then at

the end, uh, go back to the creator.

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So they're bringing the prayers

of the people back to God.

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So that's very similar to

the community of Saints.

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So I'm, I'm just finding a bridge there.

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Um, between traditions and communities as,

as a means of understanding each other.

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So that was what my, my personal

experience was with that.

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Um, the fact that I kind of, that I

had this romantic vision, basically,

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I probably romanticized, I, I, I.

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I will say that I did

romanticize too much.

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The, uh, Irish Revolution.

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I really did.

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Um, there there were, uh, serious human

rights pieces that happened that, that

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the British perpetrated against the Irish.

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Um, and, but there were some

serious things that, that

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were, uh, that were done.

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Um.

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Um, but on the Irish Republican side

too, um, you know, is there's just a lot

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of brutality and I'm, I'm happy that,

uh, the people, the people I've met

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from over there, that, you know, they're

not in a time of active war right now.

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But anyway, um, the, uh, discussion

we're having earlier about

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the, the, uh, the whole, uh.

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About the whole, um, following the

rules and everything like that, I can

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actually read a passage that explains

a little bit about that and how in

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relation to the Native American, uh,

tradition and if that's okay, approach.

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So

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Russell Newton: do.

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Mark Connor: I.

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Okay.

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Um, obviously much of this poetry

is written to women with whom I've

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been either romantically involved

or to whom I've just been attracted.

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In 2019, I was invited to share poems.

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At the annual St.

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Patrick's Day party, a

family has thrown at St.

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Mark's Parish for more than 50 years.

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It was the first time I'd ever been

there and I recited the first three

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poems, the perfect metaphor ever since.

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And two, Pilgrim Souls Onam Karara, an

old man around dad's age, approached

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me afterwards and we stepped outside

and talked a little about the poems.

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He really liked them and

encouraged me to keep writing.

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He also asked me about my faith and

about my desire to find a woman to marry.

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He admired the poems for

their quality and linguistic

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clarity, but he had one caution.

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They could be dangerous.

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He said, I know that I told him

they could be used for seduction.

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I don't do that.

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It is true.

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I don't, the women I've mentioned, the

women to whom I've written the romantic

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poems are all younger than I am, and a

couple of them are significantly younger.

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If a man desires the father, children,

there must be a limit to the age of

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women He courts, and as each year

goes by, that age limit gets one

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more year younger, then his own age

until God forbid it gets too late.

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It's just a reality of life.

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One of the sickest incongruencies of

modern life is that people generally

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are more comfortable publicly sharing

information about their sex lives

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than about their financial lives.

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They're either afraid.

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People will think less of them for

making too little money, or they'll

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try to exploit them or cause them

trouble if they make too much money,

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but they feel fine letting people

know they're sexually involved.

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They're ashamed to admit to

striving for moral chastity.

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Though I told you at the beginning of

the book that I'm Catholic and I said

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that in 2 0 0 7 I fully returned to the

faith, began praying the rosary daily,

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and decided to avoid casual relationships.

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I started following

the rules, all of them.

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You can make any presumption about a

poem based on its text, and should be

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able to imagine different people involved

in situations described within them.

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So if the text of the poem portrays

a greater or lesser degree of

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intimacy within its story, so long

as you can critically prove it

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with quotes from the text, feel

free to let your mind wander there.

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That's part of the achievement of

universality in a well-written poem.

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No.

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With certainty though, if you try

to assign any autobiographical

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realities between me and the women

about whom I wrote these poems,

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that it never happened with any

of them, especially since 2 0 0 7.

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That has been my choice because I'm a

godfather to my niece and a confirmation

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sponsor to her under brother, and that

is the standard up to which I must live.

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If I fall, I must get back up.

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That's the standard required of

any honest Catholic as it is the

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standard of any honest sun dancer.

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It may seem strange to compare the

honest Catholic to the Honest Sun Dancer.

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Remember the line though in my

poem halfway around, referring to

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mutually multiple pleasures of a

mental, physical, spiritual, and

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emotional nature peeking at the point

of merger of difference in unity.

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In 1993, I listened to a lecture at

the Minnesota's Zen Meditation Center

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by sku, AKA a Japanese Soto Zen monk

called Living and Vow at the point

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of merger of difference in unity.

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I wasn't becoming a Buddhist, I was

just trying to calm my mind and learn

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better concentration for boxing.

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However, I've carried

that concept with me.

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We have differences, but a point of

truth brings us together where we

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unite while keeping our own identity.

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The mental, physical, spiritual,

and emotional elements are all,

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are the four portions that comprise

each human being, the medicine

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wheel, which represents in color.

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Red, white, yellow, and black.

324

:

All the people of the world also

represents each of these four elements.

325

:

The circle is always turning

in one element or another.

326

:

May be the central experience

of the moment, but they're

327

:

all there all the time.

328

:

One point a merger of difference

in unity is the respect for

329

:

family and the value of sex.

330

:

Those who believe sex is

meant for arbitrary enjoyment.

331

:

In the absence of commitment, who

believe in polyamory, approve of

332

:

produce, distribute pornography, and or

broker prostitution do not value sex.

333

:

No.

334

:

Those who value sex are those who

confine it to the commitment of husband

335

:

and wife who making love form family.

336

:

If you think that's prudish, you're crazy.

337

:

If God ever grants me a wife,

I'm perfectly comfortable going

338

:

through every page with a comma.

339

:

Suits and exploring.

340

:

Dao was tantric techniques with her.

341

:

So long as we're natural and open to life,

those who value sex, never put a price on

342

:

it because it cannot be bought or sold.

343

:

Because in fact, sex is not a commodity.

344

:

Humans are not a commodity.

345

:

We are priceless.

346

:

And sex is a gift to be shared only in

love that is never lustful because it

347

:

is never selfish and is always selfish.

348

:

Sex is sacred.

349

:

So that kind of gives you kind of

a, I I, I wasn't remembering exactly

350

:

what was in that passage 'cause I

haven't looked at it for a little bit.

351

:

So I kinda cover a few

different things, but that's.

352

:

Kinda similarity of values that I

found, um, in, in the native tradition.

353

:

I mean, there's another portion

here where I talk about, uh,

354

:

how like those Irish activists I talked

about, quite a few of 'em were falling

355

:

away Catholics and, you know, and some

of 'em were falling away Protestants, and

356

:

they all wanted to see freedom in Ireland.

357

:

And I mentioned, um, or maybe I

mentioned this in another writing,

358

:

in another article I wrote somewhere.

359

:

But the thing is, um, the, there,

there's, there, there's, uh, I, I, I

360

:

mentioned, uh, Prairie Island, Minnesota.

361

:

In this book I talk

about Ray and Art Owen.

362

:

They were, uh, god rest

his, so Art Owen died.

363

:

Ray owned, um, is still a

spiritual leader of Prairie Island.

364

:

It's about 28, 38 miles

outside, outside of St.

365

:

Paul's, about 38 miles outside of St.

366

:

Paul.

367

:

And, uh, I used to go to Sweat Lodges

there and, um, and they, they went with,

368

:

with, uh, uh, Darwin Strong was, um, um,

he and his wife Gabby was, she was the,

369

:

uh, executive director when I worked at,

first worked at, they took me to, uh, uh.

370

:

Sundance down in South Dakota

for between:

371

:

And um, Ray Owen said, you know,

people, people don't, and I, there's

372

:

some point in the book I see this.

373

:

He says, people don't understand.

374

:

We're more conservative than the

Republicans, but now he's not

375

:

talking about politics there.

376

:

He's talking about the whole

sanctity of the body thing because

377

:

the, his, his, his father in the

eighties started a sweat lodge.

378

:

Then he opened it up to people

outside of the um, uh, community.

379

:

Then this is a Duck Dakota reservation.

380

:

And, um, so the hippies flocked

there, but what they're bringing

381

:

with them was the whole kind of

progressive approach to everything.

382

:

And there was kind of a, um.

383

:

Uh, a moral, a loose morality, um,

when it comes to when, when it comes

384

:

to counter relations, that, that,

that w would've been brought with

385

:

him and then, then they had to kind

of put up a boundary against that.

386

:

You know what I'm saying?

387

:

And.

388

:

That, that same kind of thing.

389

:

That, that's what I found in, uh, the

atmosphere of those political activists

390

:

that I, that I, uh, got, got involved

with in the Irish community too, you know?

391

:

So it's something that I was kind of

pulled Oh, in that direction a little bit.

392

:

At a certain point.

393

:

I just had to stop it and remind

myself who I am basically.

394

:

And, you know, my, my value for family,

and it's an interesting thing because I'm.

395

:

Still, um, you know, alone at this

point in my life in terms of, uh,

396

:

I don't have a, uh, I don't have

a, a permanent love companion in

397

:

my, I don't have a wife, you know,

398

:

Russell Newton: That's a

399

:

Mark Connor: I.

400

:

Russell Newton: ranging conversation.

401

:

I appreciate that.

402

:

I enjoy the, the segment from the book.

403

:

Um,

404

:

can you clarify?

405

:

You talked Ray and Art Owen

406

:

Mark Connor: Yeah.

407

:

Russell Newton: was an organization there.

408

:

I didn't quite get the name correctly,

409

:

Mark Connor: Um, oh, Prairie Island.

410

:

Prairie Island.

411

:

It's a

412

:

Russell Newton: Island.

413

:

Mark Connor: Prairie island.

414

:

It's a, uh, Dakota reservation.

415

:

It's, uh, just outside of, yeah,

it's outside of Red Wing, Minnesota.

416

:

Um, the, uh, biggest, uh, uh, town

close to it as Hastings, Minnesota.

417

:

Yeah.

418

:

Russell Newton: great.

419

:

Uh,

420

:

great.

421

:

Just making notes so I can, uh,

make sure we have show notes and

422

:

everything up to date when we,

we get this out to the listeners.

423

:

An interesting point there right at

the end about, a Native American,

424

:

uh, organization being open to the,

the public, more or less, or open to

425

:

newcomers, but those newcomers at some

point were expected to conform to the

426

:

Mark Connor: Well,

427

:

Russell Newton: at least the

428

:

Mark Connor: yeah.

429

:

Oh, you're talking about, yeah,

you're talking about the, uh, that

430

:

whole circle of, uh, yeah, and that's

a, it's, it's an, because it's not.

431

:

It's not like a, uh, established,

like a legal established, uh, uh,

432

:

you know, it's a religious practice.

433

:

So you're talking about, um, um, they

would've called it a Hoka, which is a

434

:

spiritual kind of spiritual family, right.

435

:

Traditionally speaking in the Dakota

tradition, that would've been the

436

:

word that they, that they used.

437

:

And, um, um, yeah.

438

:

Well, 'cause the thing is, uh.

439

:

The, the sweat lodge is considered to

be the, the, the womb of Mother Earth.

440

:

Right?

441

:

And there, and, and it's not, it's

not like the Catholic church where

442

:

you have, you have, you know,

these, you, you have, you have,

443

:

uh, um, a priest who's a, who's a.

444

:

And it was, it was a Cardinal who was

elected Pope, and then he got this

445

:

car, college of Cardinals around him,

and then everything's written down and

446

:

it's kind of put out his policy and,

and, and it's visibly seen the world.

447

:

It's, it's a little different than

that because you have different

448

:

communities and you have different,

you know, different reservations.

449

:

Each, each Native American

tribe is its own nation, right?

450

:

And so then you have their own government.

451

:

So you have different,

different traditions.

452

:

But so the, but the,

the tradition is that.

453

:

Women would not go into the sweat lodge.

454

:

And the reason women wouldn't go into

the sweat lodge is because women have

455

:

a womb and the sweat lodge is a womb.

456

:

And the, and women have a

monthly cycle and men don't.

457

:

So this is kind of a man

man's form of cleansing.

458

:

Right.

459

:

But, um, and I don't know if that

was, you know,:

460

:

that was still the case or, or if

it was, you know, I don't know, but.

461

:

In the seventies, um, when aim,

the American Indian Movement, which

462

:

actually and young is, uh, came out

of what's called the Red Schoolhouse,

463

:

which was a project of aim.

464

:

Um, so it's, it's kind of, it, it

traces back to American Indian movement.

465

:

Um, they had, I, I believe Fools Cross.

466

:

I don't, I can't remember the name

of the, uh, actual, uh, medicine Man.

467

:

'cause I, you know,

obviously I wasn't there.

468

:

But, um.

469

:

In the seventies, uh, there's actually

a guy named, uh, Arla Omaha, who's a,

470

:

a Lakota, uh, mess man was telling me

that, um, that mess man had had had.

471

:

We go and prayed and said, you know, he,

he came to the conclusion that, um, it was

472

:

okay for women to go into the sweat lodge.

473

:

There's a women that come to him and

said, you know, our, at this point, our

474

:

brothers need us, uh, uh, um, spiritually.

475

:

They, they need our strength and we

want to help and we wanna sweat too.

476

:

So there's, women are supposed to do.

477

:

Sweat's separate from men.

478

:

But then, you know, and then some places

you have men and women will go in, but

479

:

you gotta separate where they are in,

in, in the sweat lodge and everything.

480

:

Um, so, uh, there's, there's, uh.

481

:

When a, when a uh, uh, woman

goes to a native ceremony, she

482

:

always has to have a skirt on.

483

:

It has to be down below

her knees and everything.

484

:

And the whole thing is not, none

of it's to be, is to be, uh, like

485

:

shameful of the body or anything.

486

:

It's just to make sure that, you

know, people aren't distracted

487

:

and, and, and looking at, you know,

objectifying people and stuff like that.

488

:

So that was a big thing.

489

:

So I obviously wasn't there in

the eighties early when, when, um.

490

:

Art Owen, um, who I never met,

um, was, was alive and had

491

:

started that sweat lodge, but so.

492

:

They, they have a couple of things that

would maybe be, uh, traditionally not

493

:

the same as other places at Prey Island.

494

:

But I haven't, I haven't gone

to that sweat lodge since

495

:

early two thousands either.

496

:

Because see, when I, I talk about in this

book is I used to go there every Friday

497

:

night and it was a sobriety sweat, which

was they'd asked you to be sober four

498

:

days before, and so sober four days after.

499

:

So if you went every week,

you'd, you'd keep your sobriety.

500

:

Um, but it was Friday nights and I, I

was working the Friday night overnight,

501

:

um, the weekend overnights and on

the young, I had to be there at 11

502

:

o'clock and they weren't going into

the sweat lodge till around that time.

503

:

Plus it was 38 miles away from St.

504

:

Paul.

505

:

So I.

506

:

I was thinking to myself, you know, I'm

kind of not doing, like I, I'm, I'm, I'm

507

:

making the excuse, I've been working awake

overnight, uh, uh, through the weekend.

508

:

So if I don't get up and go

on a mass, so I'm not doing

509

:

anything religiously once a week.

510

:

And so I'm realizing that I'm, I'm

really missing something that's kind

511

:

of, uh, uh, it's kind of, um, just

something that I needed, you know, and I

512

:

start saying to myself, well, you know.

513

:

I mean, this is my family tradition.

514

:

This is my, you know, the

faith I was raised in.

515

:

Why am I not going anyway, you know,

so that at that time, so it was a

516

:

really interesting thing that I, I

had gotten away from working on that

517

:

young, I was like on call there.

518

:

So I, maybe I'd go there once

a while, but I wasn't that deep

519

:

into it, into the community.

520

:

At the time.

521

:

I was out driving a cab and

I was, you know, trying to

522

:

get a bunch of writing down.

523

:

I was trying to build a.

524

:

A personal training business, uh, uh,

you know, I was doing so many things and

525

:

I, I, I wasn't, um, I was driving CAB

one time not getting much business and

526

:

just thinking I, uh, needed more money

and I called up, uh, Lynn was her name.

527

:

I was a manager at the time at, at and

Young and said, do you need, uh, any help?

528

:

And she said, yeah, I need help.

529

:

You know, I said, start, start

doing the weekend overnights.

530

:

And I went back there and that's

what actually got me back into

531

:

the, into my Catholic faith.

532

:

Um, and kind of, you know, not that,

not that, uh, not that everything's

533

:

great now, but it kind of changed

the direction of my life, uh, pretty,

534

:

uh, pretty dramatically at that time.

535

:

Russell Newton: at the more practical

level, what can we maybe in your book,

536

:

what does that bring in your, uh,

consulting services or coaching services?

537

:

What do you bring, if you can

separate those into the self-help,

538

:

and I don't wanna make it sound

like a cold, uh, discipline, but

539

:

how, what's the best tie-in that

you have for our listeners, uh,

540

:

to get into the self-help region?

541

:

If, if that's even a

question that makes sense.

542

:

Mark Connor: Yeah, that does make sense.

543

:

So, you know, um, the, the title of

the book, it's about Time, right?

544

:

And I, I, uh, I altered it to,

it's about time, millions of copies

545

:

sold for data is the full title.

546

:

Um, was basically.

547

:

Here.

548

:

My dad was dying.

549

:

I always had this idea in, in

my life that I was going to get

550

:

married and have children earlier

in life and I haven't ever done it.

551

:

And I was gonna accomplish

a lot of great things.

552

:

And uh, uh, one of the things was I

was gonna publish a bunch of books

553

:

and stuff and, uh, I hadn't done that.

554

:

And I was looking at my dad thinking,

I just, man, I need more time.

555

:

'cause the things I'm gonna accomplish

in life are gonna happen, but.

556

:

He, I, he needs, I want

him alive to see it.

557

:

And he, he, he's not going to be.

558

:

And uh, that's why I, I just kind

of kicked myself, um, in the rear

559

:

end and said, it's time to do this.

560

:

And I finally, I, I wrote it and, and,

um, made sure that, you know, even if

561

:

I fall flat on my face, you know, it's,

it's gonna be something that, that I do.

562

:

And I'm gonna put it out there and try to

share it with as many people as possible.

563

:

And, uh, you know, as far as motivation

is concerned and as far as, uh, self-help

564

:

is concerned, I mean, you have to

discipline yourself to do these things.

565

:

One thing about, um, about life, about

boxing and about writing is, um, you

566

:

have to get a consistency with it.

567

:

You have to get a routine, you have to

get a, uh, you have to have a structure.

568

:

And, you know, one of.

569

:

Oh, a lot of, a lot of times we think

of freedom as being able to do whatever

570

:

we want, but it's more, uh, freedom

is more, uh, being able to develop

571

:

ourselves to the highest, uh, level

that we can develop as human beings.

572

:

And it takes discipline to do that.

573

:

And, uh, it takes, um, uh, it, it takes

a certain amount of, uh, anchoring in.

574

:

Uh, with, uh, uh, you know, we, um, with,

uh, uh, certain, um, you know, we, we

575

:

have to have a perception of what we want

and what we're going to do, and we have

576

:

to have a structure to get ourselves into

the routine of continuously doing it.

577

:

'cause once you, once you take the

first step, you start to build momentum.

578

:

When you have momentum, you can keep

things going, but you have to be able to.

579

:

Uh, have a focus on

things to accomplish them.

580

:

So that's, uh, that's the practice of

boxing and the practice of writing.

581

:

That's the similarity to the two of them.

582

:

And the approach that I have, it's

the same principle, I believe,

583

:

um, um, applied in both endeavors.

584

:

Russell Newton: We uh, from the books that

we present here is the of don't wait till

585

:

you're motivated to do something, doing

something, getting started on something.

586

:

As you said, taking that

first step is the motivation.

587

:

That's what gets you into the

process, not waiting to feel like

588

:

you need to do it or want to do it.

589

:

you agree with

590

:

Mark Connor: Yeah, I, I

absolutely agree with that.

591

:

Um, I actually mentioned, uh.

592

:

I mentioned, uh, a writer, um, when

I'm, um, talking about the different

593

:

poems that appear through the book, um,

named, uh, Natalie Goldberg, who wrote

594

:

a really popular, uh, book about writing

and write, writing specifically writing

595

:

poetry, but, but creative writing in

general called Writing Down the Bones.

596

:

And, um, uh, she.

597

:

She says, you know, um, I, I, is it

okay to, is it okay to say a swear

598

:

word in the, in this podcast or,

599

:

okay, so she, she says at one point

she says, the excuses that people have

600

:

for not writing this, I write shit.

601

:

And she says, well, so what?

602

:

Then write shit.

603

:

She said, every single.

604

:

Great writer that you have, have, have,

have ever encountered, writes shit.

605

:

You just never see it because over

75%, maybe even over 90% or more

606

:

than that of what great writers

put down on paper, never sees the

607

:

light of day and just see sees.

608

:

The garbage is thrown away because

you have to have the momentum to get

609

:

to the point where you write the,

the great, the great thing, you know?

610

:

Um, um, you know, uh, uh, there's

also the concept, um, I'm not trying

611

:

to throw him out as the, the person

everyone should follow or anything,

612

:

but I did hear, um, um, the, uh.

613

:

The, uh, uh, the, the, the well-known

motivational, uh, uh, guy, uh, Tony

614

:

Robbins, say one time that the people

who get to the, you know, you, you

615

:

keep imagining the glory, like, you

know, winning the championship, having

616

:

the, the great, you know, getting

represented this award, um, everyone

617

:

recognized you from this event or this

great event where you have this great

618

:

accomplishment when you're doing that.

619

:

That's maybe five minutes.

620

:

You know, like, I mean, like if

you think about, uh, sugar Ray

621

:

Leonard, you know, or, or, uh,

Manny Paia or something like that.

622

:

You, you get, you know, getting the,

uh, the world title belt, right?

623

:

That's one brief moment, but

everything leading up to that.

624

:

With someone that's throwing

hard punches at you and stuff.

625

:

Um, all of that is what your

life is to be a champion,

626

:

Russell Newton: Great.

627

:

Fantastic.

628

:

Um, thank you for joining

us this week listeners.

629

:

Hope you'll, uh.

630

:

Leave some comments if you have any

on the podcast and, uh, thank you for

631

:

joining us and we'll see y'all next week.

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